Gaetz to John Durham: 'Who Gave the Order on the Mueller Team to Wipe the Phones?' (June 21, 2023)

On June 21, 2023, Special Counsel John Durham testified before the House Judiciary Committee about his report on the FBI’s 2016 investigation of possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia [1]. The report, released five weeks earlier, concluded that the Justice Department and FBI “failed to uphold their important mission of strict fidelity to the law,” and that the FBI opened its investigation, code-named Crossfire Hurricane, “based on raw, unanalyzed and uncorroborated intelligence” [2]. Durham’s investigation had produced three prosecutions: two people were acquitted at trial, and a former FBI lawyer pleaded guilty [3]. He was criticized from both sides at the hearing, and this video shows the sharpest attack from the right, by Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida. All quotes below are from the official hearing record, Serial No. 118-28 [1].

Key Moments

”Who gave the order on the Mueller team to wipe the phones?”

Gaetz began with Joseph Mifsud, a Maltese professor in London who, according to the Mueller report, told Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos in 2016 that the Russian government had “dirt” on Hillary Clinton [7]. Durham said his team had contacted Mifsud’s lawyer and received phones from him but could not locate Mifsud, and that “we wouldn’t have the authority to serve a subpoena overseas.” “So, you could find the phones, but not the guy?” Gaetz asked. “Correct,” Durham said.

“How about this fact, Mr. Durham? The entire Mueller team does a hard reset on their Apple phone in synchronization to wipe away evidence. Did you investigate that?” “I’ve read that,” Durham said. “That was not something that we were asked to look at. We didn’t look at that.” “Well, no, that is not true, Mr. Durham,” Gaetz replied, holding up Durham’s appointment order: “it specifically says the investigation of Special Counsel Robert Mueller.” He then asked for the real name of “Azra Turk,” who he said the FBI had sent to “honey pot” Papadopoulos. “I’m not going to be disclosing the names of FBI personnel,” Durham said. “When you are part of the cover-up, Mr. Durham, then it makes our job harder,” Gaetz said. Durham called that “offensive."

"Have you ever heard of the Washington Generals?”

“You tried two cases; lost both of them,” Gaetz said, adding that the FBI lawyer who pleaded guilty, Kevin Clinesmith, was practicing law again. “Have you ever heard of the Washington Generals? … they are the team that basically gets paid to show up and lose, right?” “Well, I’m sure that the players who exert blood, sweat, and tears don’t view it that way, but you might,” Durham answered. “You are one of the barriers to the true accountability that we need,” Gaetz said. Durham replied: “I don’t know, sir, whether or not you’ve ever had occasion to try to investigate crimes under the rules and regulations and under the Constitution that we’re bound by.”

The view from the other side

Democrats attacked the investigation for the opposite reason. Rep. Hank Johnson of Georgia noted that it had cost “around $6.5 million,” by Durham’s own figure, and led to the indictment of only three people. When Johnson said Michael Sussmann had been “found innocent,” Durham pushed back: “What’s true is a grand jury found probable cause to indict Mr. Sussmann.” “This report is factual,” Durham said later. “Nobody has raised any issues as to whether it’s factually inaccurate in any way.”

Rep. Eric Swalwell of California also questioned Durham, as HYGO News reported in its page on that exchange.

Background: What the Report Recommended

The report did not call for major changes to Justice Department or FBI rules. Its one recommendation was to assign an official responsible for challenging the steps taken in politically sensitive investigations. The FBI responded that it had already made “dozens” of reforms: “Had those reforms been in place in 2016, the missteps identified in the report could have been prevented” [2].

The Record

Durham’s mandate. Attorney General William Barr’s October 2020 order authorized Durham to investigate possible violations of law tied to intelligence and law-enforcement activities “directed at the 2016 presidential campaigns … including but not limited to Crossfire Hurricane and the investigation of Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller, III,” as Gaetz said [4]. Durham’s answer that the phones were “not something that we were asked to look at” did not address the order’s broad language.
The Mueller team’s phones. Justice Department records released in 2020 after a lawsuit by Judicial Watch showed that “at least several dozen phones were wiped of information because of forgotten passcodes, irreparable screen damage, loss of the device, intentional deletion or other reasons” before the inspector general could review them, Fox News reported [5].
“You tried two cases; lost both of them.” Two of Durham’s three defendants were acquitted, and the third, Clinesmith, pleaded guilty and received probation [3][6].

What Happened Next

The annex: On July 31, 2025, Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, made public the formerly classified appendix to Durham’s report. Grassley’s office said it contained “previously classified information exposing a reported Clinton campaign plan to falsely tie President Donald Trump to Russia.” Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Kash Patel and intelligence agencies declassified it at Grassley’s request [8].