Doocy to Kirby: Does the White House Hope the Lab Leak Isn't True? 'We Don't Have a Hope One Way or the Other' (March 21, 2023)

The day after President Joe Biden signed a law ordering the release of intelligence on COVID-19’s origins, Fox News’ Peter Doocy asked the White House what it was still holding back, and why. “Is there a bigger national security threat than something that killed 1.1 million people … in this country?” he asked [1][2].

National Security Council spokesman John Kirby began by noting the coverage on Doocy’s network: “I’ve seen some of the commentary on your network about this.” The video above shows the exchange from the March 21, 2023, White House briefing. Quotes are from the official transcript published by the American Presidency Project [1].

”Is There a Bigger National Security Threat?”

Doocy started with the fine print. “John, about the bill President Biden signed yesterday: He says he will declassify COVID origins intel except info that would harm national security,” he said, before asking his question about the death toll [1].

Biden’s signing statement had indeed added a condition. “My Administration will declassify and share as much of that information as possible, consistent with my constitutional authority to protect against the disclosure of information that would harm national security,” it said [2].

“The President obviously has to balance transparency with national security, Peter. Of course, he does,” Kirby answered. He said Biden, on coming into office, had “ordered the declassification of what the DNI had on COVID origins, ordered the entire intelligence community, and added the Department of Energy to that list” [1].

”Then Where Is It?”

Doocy cut in. “Then where is it?” [1]

“Hey, let me finish my answer,” Kirby said. Doocy tried again: “If we’re talking about the beginning of his term —” [1]

“Added the Department of Energy and the National Labs. Told them to keep studying it,” Kirby continued. “We have kept Congress informed. Some of that has to be in a classified way right now. But it’s always a balance between the public’s right to know — right — not need, but right — and our obligation to protect national security” [1].

He added that “one should not read into that statement that he’s, sort of, laying a foundation here to be overly secretive,” and told reporters to “just judge him on what he’s done through his actions” [1].

”We Don’t Have a Hope One Way or the Other”

Then Doocy asked the question in the video. “Then does the White House hope that the lab leak theory is not true?” [1]

“We don’t have a hope one way or the other, Peter,” Kirby said. “What we want is the ground truth, wherever that takes us — wherever the science takes you, wherever the facts takes you.” He added: “President Biden wants to know so that he can help work with the scientific community to prevent a future pandemic. We’re not — there’s no thumb on the scale here, Peter. It’s not about not wanting a certain outcome. We just want the best possible outcome that we can get” [1].

”Not Going to Get All Hot and Bothered”

The same day, Chinese leader Xi Jinping was in Moscow with Vladimir Putin. A reporter Kirby called MJ asked about it. “The President considers Vladimir Putin to be a war criminal. I’m just wondering what it means to President Biden that Putin calls Xi Jinping a friend.” [1]

“I don’t think we’re overly exercised about that comment,” Kirby said. “So, we’re not going to get all hot and bothered about the use of ‘friends.’” [1]

Asked by another reporter, “And lastly, are we watching a budding alliance between China and Russia here?” Kirby said: “I wouldn’t go so far to call it an alliance. Yesterday I called it a ‘marriage of convenience,’ because that’s what I think it is.” [1]

“His Fine Feel and Touch”

At the end of Kirby’s turn, a reporter Kirby called James asked about the president. “I want to draw on your long experience in the Navy and in the national security apparatus. You’ve served — I don’t know how many administrations. How many administrations?” [1]

“Oh, gosh. I don’t know. Six or seven, probably,” Kirby answered. “So, I wonder if you could share with us any observations you might have as to the current Commander-in-Chief and whether you observe anything distinct or unique about how he approaches the central business of the presidency, which is decision-making,” the reporter asked [1].

“James, I don’t know that that’s a fair question for me. I’m just the — I’m just the guy talking for the NSC up here,” Kirby said. “And I’ll tell you, his fine feel and touch, particularly on issues of foreign policy and national security, is very, very distinct. And he asks great questions.” [1]

The Law Biden Signed

The bill had sailed through Congress. The COVID-19 Origin Act of 2023, introduced by Sens. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., and Mike Braun, R-Ind., passed the Senate by unanimous consent and the House 419-0, with 16 members not voting. It required the declassification of information about the virus’ origins and any information linking it to a Chinese lab, NBC News reported [3].

Biden had kept everyone guessing. Asked on March 10 whether he would sign the bill, he told reporters, “I haven’t made that decision yet” [3].

“I share the Congress’s goal of releasing as much information as possible about the origin of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19),” Biden said in his statement, adding that his administration would keep reviewing classified information “relating to COVID-19’s origins, including potential links to the Wuhan Institute of Virology” [2].

What the FBI and Energy Department Said

The pressure had built for weeks. On Feb. 28, 2023, FBI Director Christopher Wray told Fox News: “The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan.” He added that “the Chinese government, seems to me, has been doing its best to try and thwart and obfuscate the work here” [4].

Wray’s comments followed a Wall Street Journal report that the Energy Department had concluded, with “low confidence,” that a lab accident was most likely responsible. The FBI held its view with “moderate” confidence, while most of the nine entities investigating still favored a natural spillover from animals, the Washington Post reported [4].

By the Numbers

1.1 million: the U.S. COVID-19 death toll Doocy cited [1].
419-0: the House vote on the COVID-19 Origin Act, with 16 members not voting [3].
9: government entities investigating the pandemic’s origin at the time [4].
“Moderate”: the FBI’s confidence in its lab-incident assessment [4].
“Low”: the Energy Department’s confidence in its lab-leak conclusion, and later the CIA’s [4][7].
520: pages in the House coronavirus subcommittee’s final report [6].

What Happened Next

The report came out, and it hedged. On June 23, 2023, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released its declassified report. It found no direct evidence that the pandemic stemmed from an incident at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, but said the intelligence community still could not rule out the possibility that the virus came from a laboratory, NewsNation reported [5].

House Republicans reached a verdict. On Dec. 2, 2024, the Republican-led House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic concluded in its 520-page final report that the virus “most likely emerged from a laboratory in Wuhan, China,” citing the biology of the virus and illnesses among Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers in the fall of 2019 [6].

The CIA shifted. On Jan. 25, 2025, the CIA released an assessment that the virus most likely originated from a laboratory, though with “low confidence.” The AP reported that the finding was not based on new intelligence and that the report was completed at the behest of the Biden administration and former CIA Director William Burns. It was declassified on the orders of the new director, John Ratcliffe [7].

The White House went all in. On April 18, 2025, the Trump White House replaced the government’s covid.gov website with a page titled “Lab Leak. The True Origins of COVID-19,” NPR reported. The page said “the federal government demonized alternative treatments and disfavored narratives, such as the lab leak theory, in a shameful effort to coerce and control the American people’s health decisions.” NPR noted that many scientists still think it more likely that the virus originated naturally in a wild animal and spilled over into people at a Wuhan wildlife market [8].